F R O G S
Aight so I just read through Aristophanes' The Frogs, a comedy/satire that mocks prominent Athenians, pits two classical poets against each other, and just generally makes fun of everything. It loses a little bit of the humor as the translation strips away nuance and puns and the historical distance removes the context for the jokes, but it's still a bitingly funny comedy.
To give you an example of the style of humor in this play, it OPENS UP by breaking the fourth wall and then switching into a joke:
XANTHIAS
Look, master, an audience! Shouldn’t I say something?
Tell them one of those jokes they always fall for?
DIONYSUS
O, all right—say what you like. Only no jokes
about how you’re dying to piss. I can’t stand those—
they’re all so stale.
XANTHIAS
What about my other jokes?
DIONYSUS
Go ahead—just nothing about your bladder,
about how it’s going to burst.
XANTHIAS
What? You mean I can’t tell
that really funny one . . .
DIONYSUS
I suppose so—
but don’t say anything about the bit.
XANTHIAS
What bit?
DIONYSUS
The bit about how you need to shift your load to take a piss.
XANTHIAS
Not even this one—
“Here I am transporting such a load
if I get no relief I may explode.”
The jokes just keep coming as it lambasts politicians, plays on deceptive identities, and makes the ever-present male genitalia jokes.
I'll be honest: I had to use the footnotes. A lot. There's just so much context that we miss without being connected to the culture of the time, and jokes about specific people don't make sense without them.
What was your favorite joke from The Frogs? I really enjoyed the joke in which Xanthanias and Dionysus kept changing the Hercules costume between them as circumstances change.
I just finished reading The Frogs written by Aristophanes who was a comic playwright of ancient Athens. Basically, in this play, Aristophanes tells the story of the god Dionysus, who, despairing of the state of Athens' tragedians, travels to Hades to bring the playwright Euripides back from the dead. There were many jokes in this play. One joke was when Dionysus and his slave Xanthias visit Heracles.
ReplyDeleteHeracles: So you were in the sea-battle?
Dionysus: Yes, and we sank twelve or thirteen enemy ships.
Heracles: You two?!
Dionysus: I swear to it.
Xanthias: And then I woke up! (Lines 49-51)
The characters talk about sinking enemy ships and Xanthias says "then I woke up" meaning it was all a fantasy that did not actually happen.
XANTHIAS
What a wretched life!
I should have gone away to fight at sea—
then I’d be free and I’d have told you straight what you could do with that ass of yours.
DIONYSUS
Get down, you useless idiot! We’re there— by the door I’m aiming for, my first stop.
Xanthias is the slave and is carrying the load and complaining that his "shoulder is falling off".
I think this quote shows the relationship between Dionysus and Xanthias. Even tho Xanthias is a slave, he can still joke around with Dionysus and vice versa.
HERCULES [still laughing out of control]
I can’t help myself—he’s so ridiculous.
Seeing that lion skin above that yellow dress.
What’s going on? Do people with large clubs
now walk around in leather booties?
Where on earth do you think you’re going?
I liked this quote because Hercules is making fun of someone and laughing out of control which reminds me of current humor with me and some of my friends. What do you think about this quote?
That is the end of my first entry.
Yeah, that's a pretty good joke. It plays on the fairly common "big strong man doing/wearing something 'girly'" trope. It's like Arnold Schwarzenegger wearing a pink tutu and playing a fairy. There's not a lot of deep satire or cultural critique in that quote, but it would definitely be funny for the crowd.
DeleteI found the disses on other playwrights especially funny, though. In two lines Aristophanes craps on Morsimus and Cinesias, saying that copying and spreading their work is equivalent to hitting their mother or father:
HERCULES Then a huge sewer, always full of liquid turds—
and lying in it anyone who harmed a guest
or screwed a lad and then took back the cash,
or smacked his mother, punched his father’s jaw,
or swore false oaths, or else had copied out
a speech of Morsimus.
DIONYSUS
By god, with them in the shit
should lie whoever learned a war dance by Cinesias.
In another section, Dionysus argues with a "chorus of frogs", from which the play derives it's title. That section goes as follows:
CHORUS OF FROGS
Brekekekex koax koax
Brekekekex koax koax.
[210]
Children of the marsh and lake
harmonious song now sweetly make,
our own enchanting melodies
koax koax.
The songs we sang for Nysas lord,
for Dionysus, son of Zeus,
in Limnai at the Feast of Jars*
as people in their drunken glee
thronged into our sanctuary.
Brekekekex koax koax.
DIOYSUS [still rowing]
I’m starting to get a pain in the ass
from all your koax koax.
CHORUS OF FROGS
Brekekekex koax koax.
DIONYSUS
Not that you give a damn about it.
CHORUS OF FROGS
Brekekekex koax koax.
DIONYSUS
Piss off—and take that koax koax with you.
Nothing but koax koax.
CHORUS OF FROGS
Yes, and for us that’s fine
you meddling fool—so asinine.
Music-loving Muses love us too
as does goat-footed Pan
playing music on melodious pipes.
Apollo as he strums his lyre
loves us and what we sing,
for in the marshy waters here
we grow the reeds that bridge his string.
Brekekekex koax koax.
DIONYSUS [still rowing]
Well, I’m getting blisters and a sweaty bum.
Next time I bend down it’s going to speak . . .
[As Dionysus leans forward for the next stroke he lifts his rear end up in the
air to fart at the Frog Chorus, but their next line drowns out the sound]
CHORUS OF FROGS
Brekekekex koax koax.
DIONYSUS
Stop it, you music-loving tribe!
CHORUS OF FROGS
No, no. We’ll sing on all the more—
if we’ve ever hopped on shore
on sunny days through weeds and rushes
rejoicing in our lovely songs
as we dive and dive once more,
or as from Zeus’ rain we flee
to sing our varied harmonies
at the bottom of the marsh,
our bubble-splashing melodies.
DIONYSUS
Brekekekex koax koax—
from you I’m catching your disease!
CHORUS OF FROGS
If that’s the case, you’ll never please.
That’s hard on us.
DIONYSUS
But worse for me—
I may blow up here as I row.
CHORUS OF FROGS
Brekekekex koax koax
DIONYSUS
Go on. Keep croaking. I don’t care.
CHORUS OF FROGS
We’ll croak on ’til our throats wear out.
We’ll croak all day.
DIONYSUS
Brekekekex koax koax
You never beat me in this play!
CHORUS OF FROGS
And you’ve no chance to win your way,
not matched with us.
DIONYSUS
And you’ve no hope outdoing me.
No, no. If I must I’ll yell all day,
koaxing you to get my way—
Brekekekex koax koax
[Dionysus listens for a response from the Chorus, but there is none]
You see. Sooner or later I was going to win—
and make you stop your harsh koaxing din.
What do you think this section means? Do the frogs represent anything?
I personally think that the "frogs" are meant to represent either the Athenians or inferior playwrights, and Aristophanes is using the character of Dionysus, god of wine, madness, and drama, to pass judgement on the inferior quality of writers.
I find that Arnold Schwarzenegger wearing a tutu and playing a fairy example a good example for a strong masculine man doing something girly and how it’s funny for the crowd.
DeleteI think this section of the frogs is meant to represent inferior playwrights. I agree that Dionysus is used by Aristophanes to judge the inferior writers.
[Dionysus strikes a tragic pose]
“the sky, Zeus’ pied-a-terre,”
“the foot of time,” or this—“a mind that will not swear
on sacred offerings but a perjured tongue
that’s false with no sense of its perfidy.” 120
HERCULES
You like that stuff?
DIONYSUS
Like it? I’m crazy about it.
HERCULES
I swear it’s all bullshit—and you know it.
DIONYSUS
Now, now, don’t try to tell me what to think, not with tragedy. You’re no expert there.
HERCULES
I still say it sounds like total rubbish.
DIONYSUS
Why not teach me how to stuff my guts?
XANTHIAS
WHAT ABOUT ME??!!!!!
DIONYSUS
That’s the reason I’ve come here and dressed like you—so you can fill me in,
in case I need to know, about this place—
[100]
who welcomed you down here, who'd you meet 130 [110]
that time you went down after Cerberus.* Tell me about the harbours, resting places, bakeries and brothels, water fountains,
the cities, highways, all the detours,
the local customs and the fine hotels, the ones with fewest bugs.
XANTHIAS
Still no word of me.
HERCULES
O you valiant heart! Are you man enough to venture down below?
This section is Dionysus showing his love for Zeus and how he is crazy about it. Hercules believes it is total rubbish and does not get why he is crazy about it. Why do you think Hercules thinks this way? Does Hercules have a good reason to believe what he believes?
Idk man, it sounds like its Dionysus saying he's crazy about the melodramatic tragedy that Heracles is mocking. I don't think Heracles likes the over-the-top tragedy and Aristophanes is using him to point out how stupid some of the tragedies being produced are. He's mocking the bathos that's seemingly so prevalent in contemporary Greek tragedy. This is a satire play, after all.
DeleteI mean, Aristophanes insults everyone, even his own audience members in the part where Pluto's slave is giving Xanthias exposition on why Euripides and Aeschylus are fighting:
XANTHIAS
Didn’t people throw stuff at him?
SERVANT
My god, no.
Quite the opposite. They all cried out 880
to have a trial set up which could find out
which of the two men was the wiser poet. [780]
XANTHIAS
The crowd of scoundrels?
SERVANT
Yes, that bunch—
they made a din, by god—right up to heaven.
XANTHIAS
Didn’t Aeschylus get some support?
SLAVE
It's like this audience—too few good men.
Aristophanes implies that his audience is morally bereft and equivalent to a crowd of thieves and beggars, while directly insulting their judgement. This tendency continues through the play, insulting prominent Athenians and the populace of Athens as a whole.
How well do you think an entertainer insulting his audience would go nowadays? would he still be popular, or would he be boo'd off the stage?
I'm gonna be honest, Aristophanes reminds me of an ancient Greek version of George Carlin, who did stand-up that mocked Americans and American society as a whole in the most insulting manner possible. It's a pity he's dead, although by now I think people would have gotten angry at his comedy instead of finding it funny. So how well would Aristophanes' satirical style be received?
I feel like if a modern day comedian or entertainer directly insulted the audience, they would not take it well. They would either walk out right away or complain to social media. Kevin Hart who is a famous comedian, once made a comment about homosexuals. Social media went at him and he even lost a hosting job because of it. That is the power of the modern day media.
DeleteDIONYSUS
Did you see the men who beat their fathers— or perjurers—the ones he mentioned?
XANTHIAS
You mean you don’t?
DIONYSUS [looking at the audience]
By Poseidon, yes I do!
Now I see them. So what do we do next?
XANTHIAS
We’d better get away from here. Hercules mentioned to us it's the place where wild beast prowl.
DIONYSUS
To Hell with him! He was talking big to make me scared.
[280]
He saw I was a fighter, and he’s jealous.
No one’s more full of it than Hercules. 320 But I’m keen now for some adventure,
some exploit worthy of this expedition.
XANTHIAS
Of course you are. What’s that? I hear a noise.
DIONYSUS
What? Where is it?
XANTHIAS
XANTHIAS
No, it’s up ahead.
DIONYSUS [pushing Xanthias again]
You get in front.
DIONYSUS [pushing Xanthias]
Behind us.
Get behind me.
XANTHIAS
Now I see it. Ooooh, a monstrous beast!
DIONYSUS [cowering behind Xanthias] What’s it like?
XANTHIAS
It's weird—all sorts of shapes. Now it’s an ox—no, no, a jackass—
now it’s a woman—what a gorgeous babe! DIONYSUS
Where is she?
I’ll go say hello. XANTHIAS
Hold on a minute! 330 She’s not a woman any more. Now she’s a bitch!
DIONYSUS [terrified] It’s Empusa!!*
XANTHIAS
Her whole face is on fire!
DIONYSUS
Her legs—does she have one made of bronze?
XANTHIAS
My god!
[290]
Yes! By Poseidon, yes! The other’s made of cow shit.
And that’s no lie.
This section shows the descriptive language Aristophanes used back then. How is it similar to the way we describe things today?
Descriptive language and dialogue style changes from writer to writer, but this closely resembles a lot of comedic plays put out today: snappy dialogue, comedic timing, and interactions that emphasize the tendencies of the characters. Many authors throughout history have played on the idea of one character scaring another through mounting tension in dialogue and letting the audience watch. It's a classic. They also use the switch between fear and other emotions (in this case, arousal) to emphasize the vacillating, cowardly nature of a character.
DeleteWhat do you think about the fact that Aristophanes closes the play by saying that certain prominent Athenians should be killed? Is this something an entertainer should do? What rights and duties does the media have in a society?
For context, I'm referring to this section:
PLUTO
So now, farewell, Aeschylus—go,
save our city with your noble thoughts,
and educate our fools—we have so many.
Take this sword, hand it to Cleophon.
Present this rope to tax collector
Myrmex and his colleague Nicomachos—
this hemlock give to Archenomos.
Tell them to come here fast without delay.
If they don’t come soon, then, by Apollo,
I’ll brand and cripple them, then ship them down
at full speed underground with Adeimantos,
Leucolophos's son.
I get what you are saying with the descriptive language changes from writer to writer. that is a good point.
DeleteI do not believe that entertainers should be able to say that prominent members of society should die. They do not have the right to say anyone should die just based on their position in society. Who are they to say someone like for example, Donald Trump, should die? Saying Trump should be impeached is completely different and I believe entertainers should be able to say their political opinions on things like that.
AEACUS
O you abominable, you shameless reckless wretch—
villain, villain, damned smiling villain—
the man who made off with Cerberus my dog!
You grabbed him by the throat and throttled him, 520
then took off on the run, while I stood guard.
Now you’re caught—black-hearted Stygian rocks, [470]
and blood-dripping peaks of Acheron
will hold you down. Roaming hounds of Cocytus will gnaw your guts to bits—Echnida, too,
and she’s a hundred heads. The Tartesian eel
will chew your lungs, your kidneys bleed
from entrails Tithrasian Gorgons rip apart.
I’ll set out hot foot in their direction.
[Aeacus lets go of Dionysus, who drops to the ground in terror. Exit Aeacus back into the house. Dionysus lifts his tunic and inspects his underpants]
XANTHIAS
What have you done?
DIONYSUS
I’ve made an offering. Call the god. 530
XANTHIAS
You’re being ridiculous. Get up. Move it, before some stranger spots you.
DIONYSUS
I’m going to faint. Bring the sponge here—set it on my heart.
[480]
[Xanthias rummages through the bags and finds a large sponge]
It's great Hercules!
XANTHIAS
I’ve found the sponge! Here—you can do it.
[Dionysus takes the sponge and begins to clean up his crotch with it]
XANTHIAS
Where are you putting that sponge? O golden gods, you keep your heart in there?
DIONYSUS
It was scared— it ran off to my lower bowel.
XANTHIAS
Of all gods and men no one’s more cowardly than you.
Based off of this, do you believe that humor back then was just making fun of one another kind of like todays humor?
Good last point, Shady, and JJ referenced aspects of it earlier--the patterns and methods of comedy are very similar today, or at least this "low comedy" is very similar to our low comedy today (low as in, references to bodily functions and personal put-downs). Good reliance on quot analysis in this MOR, though it makes sense that there would be more to talk about in the lines, because there isn't much overall character development or theme growth. Comedy's job, perhaps, is mostly to be funny? Note that the 300 word requirement for an entry expects that most of the words will be yours and only a few will be quoted. If you rely on loooong quote, make sure you're also commenting enough. Thanks. Grade on Portals.
Delete